Tags
asking permission, Ent, pagan, paganism, self-reflection, spirits, spirituality, tree, Treebeard, wand, Wicca, witchcraft
All too frequently in the Pagan community I hear people advising others to ‘ask permission’; from spirits, from trees, from rocks, from oceans, from Deity, or whatever else have you. I came across this idea of asking permission most often when discussing wands, but it happens in so many other instances, and I have never fully understood it.
When making a wand, I’d been instructed to search (inside myself, and out in nature) to find the perfect source for my wand. I was told the dimensions it traditionally should have, and some ideas as to the symbolism of certain woods, but in the end it was an exercise that lead me to a local tree, species unknown. But that is beside the point. Once there, I was expected to sit and commune with the tree and ask permission to take one of its branches to create a wand with. The is all very well and good, except that I couldn’t help but feel that it was a touch futile.
Here’s why; what are the chances this tree is actually going to tell me “no”?
“Bitch, please!”
-Treebeard
Obviously there is a certain group of people, gifted with skills most people glamourize and covet, that can actually receive messages from spirits and the energies of a place or object, but anyone with sense in their head realizes how rare these people are. So, why am I expected to ask a tree permission to take a branch? Why would I suddenly develop the ability to speak with this tree just because I want to take something from it, even though in my day-to-day life I have never communed with nature in the literal sense?
I mean, honestly think about this. When was the last time a Pagan ever said “I went hunting for a wand, and I found the most beautiful apple tree you can ever imagine. It lured me in, and I was breathless as I gazed at it. I knew I wanted this branch for my wand and no other branch would ever be right except this one! And then I asked its permission and it was like ‘No way’ and I was like ‘Cock tease!'”
I’ve never heard someone (other than truly gifted mediums or spirit-workers) say that they’ve been refused a request when they’ve asked permission.
So, to what end do we perpetuate this practice? Isn’t it just a drawn out session of giving yourself permission, with some glitter and sparkles glued on for that ultra-magick feeling? Yes, it is. But only if you don’t actually consider the exercise beyond the literal “ask permission”. Because the idea isn’t to actually expect a response from a tree, or the ocean, or a garden path, but rather that you stop and reflect on your actions regarding these things. If everyone went around hacking, willy-nilly, at apple tree saplings, then your orchards would surely suffer. Also, as they taught me in Scouts “If you take every pretty shell home with you, soon there is nothing beautiful left at the beach!”
Asking permission isn’t just a conversation with a tree, but rather a conversation with yourself (sparkles or no sparkles). “Is there anything living in this tree?”, “Can I take one from the ground rather than cut one off?”, “Will this tree be able to survive the trauma of losing a limb?”, “What about it drew me?”, “Look at the beautiful landscape it is part of. Can I keep that intact?”, etc.
Think about your effect on the world around you, because that is your final intention, isn’t it? Your wand is part of your magical practice, a tool of your intent, to work your will on the world. To affect the world directly. So don’t just pay lip-service to that idea! Act in accordance!
When you ask permission, don’t just imagine an Ent in your mind groggily telling you “Okey-dokey!”, but consider instead why it would say yes. Why wouldn’t it? If you think your magic is real, be realistic about your magic…although, I suppose that leads into a whole other post. Maybe some other time.
A Changing Altar 
Love it! I love the way you cut through the cr@p to reach the essence of a situation. You are so right…it’s not about some charade, it’s about respecting our environment. Mysticism brought down to earth…Mother Earth. Kudos, Ryan!
Just to play devil’s advocate:
Assume some lovely young girl walks up to you one day, carrying her canvas bag loaded with herbal goodies, bottles and containers, a wicker part for mushrooms, and some seemingly unusual bits ans bobs tucked in as well. She sits down, criss cross style in front of you, with a look of reverence and contemplation, and then pulls out her shears and starts cutting your hair!
As an animist, I believe in an inherent soul in all things. This does not necessarily mean a “mind” a la DesCartesian dualism, but a soul. Regardless if the being in question has a conciousness equivalent to our own, all things ensouled have some level of sentience. Rather than get into a trite ontological debate, I will instead ask- would you rather someone reverently take of your livelihood, or actually ask first!
Communion of being, from one soul to another, is, in my opinion, possible because I have experienced it. I think you point out a huge flaw in the oft rehashed neo-pagan jargon- namely that people give advice without actually understanding the implication. It is stupid and impractical to tell people they need to have a personal, mystic communion with the deva of every plant every time they need something. We would all be tranced out every time we needed firewood!
That said, developing the skills to do so in occasions where it is appropriate is probably what one ought to actually do.
Some food for thought on the opposite end of the spectrum!
The Devil’s advocate is always my favourite advocate!
Animism isn’t something I have ever really thought through, fully; it’s natural to me to a point, but it is definitely something I should explore further, because you raise a very good point. I like your differentiation between ‘soul/spirit’ and ‘mind’, but that brings up a difference in point of view for me. While I agree that most everything has a ‘soul’, I don’t think most things have ‘mind’ enough to actually tell us “No!” in very clear terms (which is what I was getting at in my post). So, reverence and thanks should be given, but for most lay-Pagans, I don’t think our skills are sharp enough to really get at the ‘wants’ of a particular nature spirit.
I suppose I was just caught up on the, for lack of a better word, thoughtlessness of some other people. Why would you pretend to have had some great conversation with a tree when you haven’t actually thought through why you should even need to. It would be like asking someone to borrow their shirt, without actually caring about their response because you know you’re just going to take it anyways once they leave for work. The spirit of the tree/plant/rock/ocean should be respected, but there is nothing respectful about pretending you know what it wants or needs (assuming you aren’t one of the gifted few who might actually know what it wants or needs). It’s lip-service at best, and ignorance at worst.
I’m not saying it’s impossible to have a connection to a place or thing in the context of ‘asking permission’, but I do still hold true to my feeling that most lay-Pagans don’t have those connections. At least not well developed enough connections to warrant the whole “ask permission” song and dance I see so many people go through.
You don’t need to gild the lily just because it is a religious practice; honesty and saying what you are actually doing, with reverence and thoughtfulness is more important than making it seem like some *experience* by beautifying it and making it ‘m0ar Magicxalz0rz!’.
Hi, my name is Ryan, and I can’t talk to trees!
“You don’t need to gild the lily just because it is a religious practice; honesty and saying what you are actually doing, with reverence and thoughtfulness is more important than making it seem like some *experience* by beautifying it and making it ‘m0ar Magicxalz0rz!’.”
And in that, I completely agree. You shouldn’t BS. Period. You don’t need to have *majik experiences* to feel validated. And if you are an animist or animatist than you really shouldn’t go round lying about your relationships to beings you know to be real. Total agreement!
I’m just pointing out that at full swing, you have others who do commune with devas and spirits ( and while not for everyone, certainly can be more common than one might first think) who also need to be totally honest and clarify if any meaningful conversation is to be had. Which can be its own set of problems, as mystics tend to use incredibly broad jargon.
I think a good deal comes back to trite phrasing, and a lack of critical thinking. It’s really easy for modern pagans to just consume information without actually processing anything through their personal bovine excrement filter (let alone if they have developed said filter in any meaningful way).
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I love your post 🙂 and shared it on my blog. I also think that asking permission is about respecting the nature, the trees for example when someone wants to make a wand. Respect, and objective observation of the environment.
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